Onslaught Matches

[DJRob]

Some re-randomizing will be done here - please see tomorrow for Match Calls.

[DJRob]

Currently Calling

Naja vs ]H[elix

MF vs .Com


Above Clans - please negotiate here your times for these matches anytime starting from the 10 July 2005.

Once agreed I will confirm that this match may commence.

[Gamos]

Naja vs Helix and Naja vs .Com?

[DJRob]

corrected - the extra line was cut paste - in there by accident ;) check above :)Naja vs Helix and Naja vs .Com?

[Gamos]

Oh brother, Helix first huh? I am sure they will be more than willing to annihilate us :P

[DJRob]

Gamos - you can do it :) Show Helix who's the boss :P I think the .Com's are gonna send us accross the universe :) .Com - how about 19:30 next Tuesday?

Oh brother, Helix first huh? I am sure they will be more than willing to annihilate us :P

[Gamos]

Any dates Helix? <gulp>

[sneaky]

When Gamos? Maybe a weeknight?

[Gamos]

Sheesh, well we have .Com for TDM, MA for CTF and now Helix for ONS. A weeknight should be fine, but give me some dates and I'll take it back to the clan...

[sneaky]

I think the Onslaught map on GM's site is teh broke, but I might just be n00b.

Gamos im proposing a Wednesday or Thursday night match next week, say nineish?

[Cataphract]

Cool with me. I'm sure we'll get 5 ]H[ together.

Let us know whether you prefer Wednesday or Thursday at 21:00, or maybe later?

Cheers

CAT

[[N]Haja]

how about feb the 29th? I don't mind waiting for it :)

[BeTraYeL]

Will get back to you dj on Friday/Saturday

[DJRob]

Sneaky - the onslaught maps will updated tonight or tomorrow morning ;) we've been busy working out the best way to lay them out - and we finialising it today.

Other than that TDM, CTF, and BR Maps are pretty much it set!

I think the Onslaught map on GM's site is teh broke, but I might just be n00b.

Gamos im proposing a Wednesday or Thursday night match next week, say nineish?

[DJRob]

Awesome :P

Will get back to you dj on Friday/Saturday

[sneaky]

Hey, G what map(s) would you guys like to play? How does this work anyway, sudden death? 1 map winner takes all?

Let me know, think Torlan is a old faithfull and almost everybody knows it.

[DJRob]

Sneaky to make this easier - I think its better we at least confirm now the maps for 1/16 and 1/8 of the tournament.

They will be Torlan, Frostbite and Dawn.

I think that should help - you'll need to play all three according to tourney rules - so that your points are earned correctly. 1 win - 2 points and 1 loss = 1 point. Ie - Win/Loss here means that the entire rounds for the map played is over.

Hey, G what map(s) would you guys like to play? How does this work anyway, sudden death? 1 map winner takes all?

Let me know, think Torlan is a old faithfull and almost everybody knows it.

[sneaky]

So if the map takes up a total of 3 rounds to complete the winner will get 2 points and the looser 1 point, correct?

[DJRob]

I think I understand you correctly - but lets just recap here anyway.

one game of Onslaught runs 3 goal scores. You have 15 min to score all three? who ever reaches 3 goals first or has the highest score by 15min, or scores first after a tie in overtime - gets 2 points to their overall score rating, the looser will get 1 point.

All three maps should be played - by the end of the three maps - 6 winning points would have been dished out (2 points per win) and 3 Loosing points (1 point per loss)

So if the map takes up a total of 3 rounds to complete the winner will get 2 points and the looser 1 point, correct?

[<A>Nom@n]

that sounds wrong. ons doesnt have goal scores it has core drains, and that takes the whole 15 minutes + overtime to do once.

so if u have to do this 3 times and three maps, that can be 9x15 minutes not counting overtime?

Thats gonna be some seriously long matches.

[DJRob]

Ah - you know what - it is wrong

/me slaps himself

this is what happens when you think of TDM mind set verses ONS - someone have a Mad house I can move into.

you are right Noman - Thus I need to correct my thinking here - its will be one map per match - and 15 min per core destroying/draining. 2 points for a goal and 1 point for a loss.

thus the 1 map - and 45 min ;) totalling the game.

eish guys - I think I need a holiday :) - haven't slept much the last three days!

You know - I was sitting and staring at this problem yesterday - and for some stupid reason I didn't click!

Thus - the first map in this Tier will be Torlan

/me shakes Noman's hand

that sounds wrong. ons doesnt have goal scores it has core drains, and that takes the whole 15 minutes + overtime to do once.

so if u have to do this 3 times and three maps, that can be 9x15 minutes not counting overtime?

Thats gonna be some seriously long matches.

[sneaky]

Think were on the same page now, thx :)

[DJRob]

We have a problem - that I just checked

If we set one map - 15min per round - 3 goals - the total goals that can be scored would be 5 Goals - this messes up the point system I design.

So to make the points system work - the point will be dished out as follows for overall Goals scored.

if the match ends 3 Goals to winning Clan and no Goals to the other - the winning Clan will get 6 Points and the loosing Clan 3 Points.

if the match ends 3 Goals to winning Clan and 1 or 2 Goals to the other - the winning Clan will get 5 Points and the loosing Clan 4 Points.


Think were on the same page now, thx :)

[sneaky]

How bout, we just tell you the end result and you work it out?

[DJRob]

that's fine - just needed to word the point workings How bout, we just tell you the end result and you work it out?

[Lord_Xan]

This is a bit off the beaten track, but how about using ratios for scores? It eliminates a number of nasty problems and will autobalance scores in a way. Let me give an example:

Team 1 vs Team 2 TDM -> 60 - 30
Team 1 vs Team 2 ONS -> 1 - 3

Scores for TDM
Team 1 gets a score of 0.67 (60 divided by 90)
Team 2 gets a score of 0.33 (30 divided by 90)

Score for ONS
Team 1 gets a score of 0.25 (1 divided by 4)
Team 2 gets a score of 0.75 (3 divided by 4)

You can already see that Team 2's victory in ONS is quite comparable to Team 1's victory in TDM. Total scores would be 0.92 for Team 1 and 1.08 for Team 2.

The big advantage is that the total score for a team is more closely correlated with their actual performance. Two disadvantages are that this method of scoring is slightly less intuitive and that lower scoring gametypes (CTF, BR and ONS) are more likely to carry greater weight in the total score.

I'd be happy to discuss this (as well as some solutions to the weight disadvantage) if you're interested. :)

[DJRob]

Let's discuss it - it might be better than my idea. I think I sort of understand you - maybe baby talk me through this.

Here was my reasoning for my points above.

In TDM/CTF/BR - you play three maps. So the only points combination you would get would be:

Team 1 = A Team 2 = B

A B

W 2 L 1
W 2 L 1
W 2 L 1
---------------
6 3

A B

W 2 L 1
W 2 L 1
L 1 W 2
---------------
5 4

Then the rest is mirrors of the above. So there are only two score combinations being 6-3 or 5-4 in each match.

Thus my thoery was for points in ONS - is if Team A or B scores all three goals and the opposite team scores none the share of points would be 6-3. If Team A or B score all three goals and the opposite scores 1 or 2 goals then the score division should be 5-4.

This is a bit off the beaten track, but how about using ratios for scores? It eliminates a number of nasty problems and will autobalance scores in a way. Let me give an example:

Team 1 vs Team 2 TDM -> 60 - 30
Team 1 vs Team 2 ONS -> 1 - 3

Scores for TDM
Team 1 gets a score of 0.67 (60 divided by 90)
Team 2 gets a score of 0.33 (30 divided by 90)

Score for ONS
Team 1 gets a score of 0.25 (1 divided by 4)
Team 2 gets a score of 0.75 (3 divided by 4)

You can already see that Team 2's victory in ONS is quite comparable to Team 1's victory in TDM. Total scores would be 0.92 for Team 1 and 1.08 for Team 2.

The big advantage is that the total score for a team is more closely correlated with their actual performance. Two disadvantages are that this method of scoring is slightly less intuitive and that lower scoring gametypes (CTF, BR and ONS) are more likely to carry greater weight in the total score.

I'd be happy to discuss this (as well as some solutions to the weight disadvantage) if you're interested. :)

[Lord_Xan]

Your reasoning sounds solid, DJ. I think the most important thing is to create a consistent "link" between TDM scores and ONS scores (which you've done).

The more straightforward approach (yours) is likely to work best. :)

[Terror]

We'll just leave the maths to you guys hey.. ..

[DJRob]

Thanks Lord_Xan - if everyone understands my logic - then lets stick with it.

Your reasoning sounds solid, DJ. I think the most important thing is to create a consistent "link" between TDM scores and ONS scores (which you've done).

The more straightforward approach (yours) is likely to work best. :)

[[N]Haja]

Heya,

TO HELIX!

We cannot make the game on monday for ons...we just cannot get 5-6 players. I am currently trying to re-schedule for wednesday, 8:30pm. Will this suit you guys?

I will let you know by tuesday morning latest whether or not we can get 6 for wed night. Please keep me informed when suits you.

Thanks
Cya

[sneaky]

Will post changes and let you know ;)

[DJRob]

Betrayal - we will only be able to make it thurs (19:00-21:00) or Sat (11:00-16:00) - not enough players will be availabale this tues. Please let me know as soon as you know
Will get back to you dj on Friday/Saturday

[Gamos]

Sneaky, we have 5 players for Wednesday 8:30.

Lemme know...

[sneaky]

Gamos, we organised for a 6 vs 6. It would be cool if you can get one more NAJA. Otherwise not sure what the rule is regarding this? 5 vs 5 will have to do. Lets book it in the meantime.

[Gamos]

No no , hang on then. I'm sure 1 more oke will come crawling out of the woodwork :P

Make it a tentative yes... :)

[DJRob]

Currently Calling

Naja vs ]H[elix

MF vs .Com

----> Please organize your matches

[DJRob]

.Com - We are happy to organize next tues/thurs

Please let us know when you are available

[Gamos]

Guys, I am totally lost here! I actually only found out now that we are only playing 1 map (Torlan), and not 3 (Torlan, Severance, Islandhop) tonight!

There are only 2 goals to score. If team A wins the first round of the map, and then the second round too, the game is over.

If teamA wins round one, and teamB round 2, only then will there be a 3rd round. How does scoring work then? There are only 2 or 3 rounds per map.

[DJRob]

Gamos - scoring is as below - read ealier in this forum to understand why we are doing one map per round

We have a problem - that I just checked

If we set one map - 15min per round - 3 goals - the total goals that can be scored would be 5 Goals - this messes up the point system I design.

So to make the points system work - the point will be dished out as follows for overall Goals scored.

if the match ends 3 Goals to winning Clan and no Goals to the other - the winning Clan will get 6 Points and the loosing Clan 3 Points.

if the match ends 3 Goals to winning Clan and 1 or 2 Goals to the other - the winning Clan will get 5 Points and the loosing Clan 4 Points.

[Gamos]

Ok, cool. Got it now.

[DJRob]

just to further Gamos misunderstanding - a ONS map played with 3 goals means that - the first person to score to three wins.

Ie Team A can score 2 pounts - that means Team B is still allowed to score another 3 points to win.

So a total goal score of 3 points does not mean three rounds - it means minimum 3 rounds maximum 5 - depending on how each Clan scores.

Here are the Score results you can get:

3-0
3-1
3-2
0-3
1-3
2-3

The match is over once the first Clan reaches a score of 3 - and will continue until a Clan reaches 3 points.

[Gamos]

Where I made the mistake, is thinking that the first team to score the most points wins, like current ONS. This is played until one team reach 3 points regardless of how many point the other team makes.

[sneaky]

Im leaving this in DJ's capable hands, lets just send him a screen cap.

[DJRob]

Good Idea - just have fun and send me the screeny :P Im leaving this in DJ's capable hands, lets just send him a screen cap.

[Gamos]

Thanx Helix for the total rapage! :)

We will regroup, reform, train, and lose to you next time too :P

3-0 to Helix, in 6 minutes ! :P

I doubt anybody has screenshots, since the server wasn't setup correctly. We just played 3 rounds.

[GunJitsu]

Thanks for the games guys, we know you guys don't really play onslaught so thanks for playing.

[sneaky]

:D dont forget were destined for a TDM as well. Was quick but fun:P THX to all that played.

[Lord_Xan]

I've got some screenies and will pass them on to DJ.

Thanks for playing it out, Naja. :)

[Gamos]

If a clan start thanking you for 'playing it out', you just know you got beaten like a punchbag at a Tyson convension! :P

So where is the training server?

[Lord_Xan]

So where is the training server?

Just let me know a time and place and I'll offer what help I can. :)

[DJRob]

Thanks :)



I've got some screenies and will pass them on to DJ.

Thanks for playing it out, Naja. :)

[DJRob]

Well tried though Gamos :P If we get to play Helix in ONS (/me thinks this would be a miracle) - we'll try and give them a couple of rockets with your Clan name tatood on them!


Thanx Helix for the total rapage! :)

We will regroup, reform, train, and lose to you next time too :P

3-0 to Helix, in 6 minutes ! :P

I doubt anybody has screenshots, since the server wasn't setup correctly. We just played 3 rounds.

[Gamos]

Thanx DJ! That is, if you manage to last long enough to reload that rocket launcher :P

Could I have those screenies too, please?

[-=BeLgaRiOn=-]

LOL! Sounds like fun :) . Well done all!

[Cataphract]

you just know you got beaten like a punchbag at a Tyson convension

A big thank you to the NAJA's for a very exciting onslaught match.

Let me say this about the result: Torlan is one scary-ass competition map. It is extremely difficult to have a close result. The map is designed in such a way that once the balance of power swings - it swings 100 / 0 in favour of the team with the upper hand. You have two tanks and you spawn at nodes with an Avril right there, versus spawning in a heavily attacked base, no tank, and no avril in the weapon locker. It is a brilliant design and it avoids "Adara Syndrome" where a game takes 1 hour 45 minutes to complete.

You guys did cool, and besides, it's not exactly your favourite gametype. Ask Xan - your heart's got to be in it.

I have a demo (client side) of the game and a screenshot.

P.S. Gamos: change the words "punch bag" to "Robin Givens" and you've got yourself one hell of a beating! :D

[DJRob]

Cat - could email me those to play@gamemasters.co.za - would like to watch the demos

[TheProven]

Screenshots attached.

[Gamos]

Oh boy, that is soo embarrasing! 3 minutes 10 and 3 minutes 57 :P

I sure it would have taken longer if there was no opposing team :P