Experience vs Skill [Archive]

cYan1D3

06 Mar 2007, 15:57

I really like playing ut2k4 and I read a lot of the threads on this forum to improve my game in UT. But can skill ever beat experience.

I mostly play vampirus and I basically know what the bot will do in every scenario. And at Lans I get my regular 2 or 3 games coz they don't like dying :( so it means my playing time with people is very limited thats why I want the adsl already so I can play with people that wanna play.

So tell me skill ;) or experience :(, which will win teh Game???

thanks

J1nX

06 Mar 2007, 16:44

Each one is different, and in fact you can't have one without the other.

To have experience, and be successful you need some level of skill.

You can't call someone who's been playing online since UT99 but still play like their first day playing the game, experienced now can we.

It works other way around also - skill in UT comes with time and patience and alot of practice, to build that skill to it's present level - chances of someone playing UT for the first time dueling and playing the game like Veteran and top player like Naut, who's skills have taken years to fine tune, it's like 1 in a BAZILLION chances of that ever happening.

As to be effective and win in UT dueling, it's a combination of long time experience, coupled with a fine tuned skill thats been developed by trial and error.

If I've missed the point of the topic let me know... but I think the question can't have one option alone as an answer imho.

J1nX
Clan Vega

slayer676

06 Mar 2007, 18:55

.....

chances of someone playing UT for the first time dueling and playing the game like Veteran and top player like Naut, who's skills have taken years to fine tune, it's like 1 in a BAZILLION chances of that ever happening.

....

J1nX
Clan Vega

man Raz imo is one in "BAZILLION" he has been here for about a year maybe less...

Syzygy78

06 Mar 2007, 19:20

cYan1D3 (http://unreal.co.za/forums/member.php?u=494)...

if you have a chance, go to www.unrealnorth.com (http://www.unrealnorth.com) and download demo's there. You will get a few tips, tricks etc from watching the demo's.

You need to play alot against people who are slightly better than you in UT. Thats the only good way you will gain decent experience and hone your skills. It really is pointless pwning someone 50 - 0. You wont be able to improve your game nearly as much had you been playing someone slightly better than you.

cYan1D3

07 Mar 2007, 08:22

Cool, thx that helps. I guess I will have to watch those demos to get better. I don't know any good guys in Nam except Bezerkalien who is on the server but he is really busy and never had time to lan with us.

I am only asking coz I wanna be able to give some of you guys a go and maybe win a few games and not get pwnd shitless on the servers when telecom decides to install the line.

But I guess with time I will improve hopefully but I wish I could compare myself to you guys and see where I stand right now. Coz I am getting bored playing vampirus...

J1nX

07 Mar 2007, 08:41

Do you beat Vampirus bot on GODLIKE hands down all the time in duel?

One thing is even if you beat the bot - it's still no comparison to a humans brain and skills...

cYan1D3

07 Mar 2007, 09:12

Yeah I beat it, didn't loose in a while, my best score against it was in Rough where I won 37 - 9. that bot gets hs way to often.

but you are right humans are much better opponents coz they can think.

J1nX

07 Mar 2007, 09:20

I've watched people play that bot, and it's supposed to be a tough challenge for average players afaik.... you say you always pwn the bot on GODLIKE?

Mmm, well then at a wild guess I'd say you'd be good competition to the regular duelers.. but until you get here, we'll never know :D

cYan1D3

07 Mar 2007, 10:11

That is true, I will never know until I am on the servers, If I control the map I pwn it but if I don't I beat it with a few kills.

But yeah experience I don't have , I would say skill i have IMO, but playing online is a different experience all together, but I am very competitive so if I loose you will see me coming back for more... hehe

=_sNaKe_=

07 Mar 2007, 10:19

cYan1D3, tip from a noob :

I've found that Vamp (and I guess this is fairly common knowledge) is only lethal when he has SR & LG, so what I do is I intentionally LET him get those weapons. Most times I'd just fire up an "Arena" mutator with said weapons, so we both have the same weapons.

Needless to say, if you don't nail that first shot, you're fucked so it creates a good sense of urgency to try and land the first blow (and quickly as well :P) and helps you deal with pressure.

2c.

J1nX

07 Mar 2007, 10:31

Apparently you can set the bot to mainly pickup and use the LG and SR which means you gotta be quick and it's good practise, almost like what snake suggested, but in this case you don't need mutators either...and upping the bot to 100% aim efficiency or whatever it is, is gonna make it a tougher fight :)

cYan1D3

07 Mar 2007, 12:23

How do you set the bot to 100% accuracy, i tried doing it but I guess I am too nOOb for that.

But that will only make the bot more accurate and not change the movement of the bot around the map, so I will just have to combo the bot or use the 3 rockets to screw it as soon as it comes out of a corner. And I don't think it can get more accurate with the flak, rocket, link, mini or bio. but it can for sr/lg but then I won't let him take it.

Coz the bot fire rate is as fast as the weapon can fire, so I just time the weapon and dodge outta the way when it shoots a flak or rocket, way to easy. I like getting real close to the bot and dodge it and shot it in the face with a flak, that is just awesome. :)

but this is getting boring, I want to play someone to show me what else is possible in unreal, I ran out of ideas on how to improve... :(

Gamos

07 Mar 2007, 12:57

Cyanide, be very careful of those Godlike bots. What I have found with bots is that you learn what they do and how to counter it. You teach yourself to exploit a bot pathing problem, weapon choice or stick point, rather than actually learning how to play UT better. Bots are definately a great tutor for completely new players and even intermediates, but as soon as you find you feet you are just learning how to counter bots, not how to become a better UT player any more.
Does this scenario ring a bell? You go around a corner with the shock, count a few second and then shoot a secondary ball anticipating a combo. BOOM! You get the point. Thing is, the bot does that every single time, over and over and over. Humans differ their times, take different routes, come out with the shield, bots just follow blind. At the best of days they are planks, even if they outaim you.

To answer your initial question though, I still say map knowledge is 60% of the game, so experience > skill imo.

sneaky

07 Mar 2007, 13:40

Also the reason imo why only 4 maps gets played the whole time, most decent players on those 4 maps get biets slapped when playing anything else.

If you have skill the experience will come but be careful not to limit yourself or you will never really improve.

Gamos

07 Mar 2007, 14:29

If it was any other game Sneaky, I would agree with you. But this is UT, the game with 99% rubbish maps.

Also, great players will play a worse game on a new map, but so will the mediocre and new players. You can hardly expect a decent player to go duel someone on a map where the other party knows it.

It actually enforce my point that map (experience)>skill

cYan1D3

07 Mar 2007, 15:21

Great advice Gamos I appreciate all the info, I noticed when I played at the compo, we played GrenaldKeep and I never play that map coz I only play 1 vs 1 maps, I did suck the first time I played 1 vs 1 and now I know how to control it.

Is map experience knowing where all the weapons are, the sounds of the entire map, all the camping spots and spawning spots? or is it instinct

I am not yet that good with weapon sounds and map sounds still learning that, but you need to know the map well for that so loads of repetition of a map.

I hear max is really great in Deck 17 and Albatross but not that good on other maps, why does that happen?

GM<Jaymac>MF

07 Mar 2007, 15:47

Map experience is mostly about knowing; if a guy goes up that lift, he'll probably take that corner, and came out at point 'x,' So... shock ball at point 'x'.

It's learning the routes that human, thinking, players will take to try and trick you, and then second guessing them.

I think experience counts more than skill. Skill is vital, of course, but experience definitely counts more. I was one of the first guys in my clan to get DSL, and within one week I went from being the worst player in the clan to the second best. After about a month I was absolutely pwning the best guys in the clan.

cyghost

07 Mar 2007, 21:15

How do you set the bot to 100% accuracy, i tried doing it but I guess I am too nOOb for that.

under the mutators tab (far right) when creating a server there is the option on the bottom right to configure mutators this will open vampy's mut and you can up her to 100% - bloody accurate beech

on rough she is murderous!! :P

Gamos

07 Mar 2007, 21:22

And again you learn how to avoid a 100% accurate bot and little else.

cyghost

07 Mar 2007, 21:59

no argument form me on that point

but I have no umans to play other than the LAN's every month or so :P

and I hardly play vampy any way - as soon as she gets one kill off me I quit UT and watch a movie instead...

cYan1D3

27 Mar 2007, 08:29

I see what is meant by experience, you can basically say it is a feeling you have, where the player will land and predicting the other players movement and the movement across a map.

I have watched the way some of the players play, they are really good with the RL, I still need to learn that, and the flak. I just suck close range mainly because of the lag and I can't really tell if he is going left or right :(

Shock combos, wow it is like everyone is good with that. I will need a load of gaming and a faster line to improve. so hopefully by end of may the speeds will be better.

cYan1D3

16 May 2007, 10:22

I finally get it :)

Can't wait now to get a decent connection, I have been practicing off-line now for a while and can't wait to show you guys what I am made of ;)

cya on the server

cyghost

16 May 2007, 10:32

practice makes perfect :D goodonya!

Manta

02 Jun 2007, 11:31

Just to add something, and this is how i got to be asgood as i am now.

i improved my skill only playing bots. still if i wanto pwn, i got play 2 bots for 30 minutes. its in my personal oppinion best way to get skill up because, nomatter the time, you can alwasy play a bot.

To get your experience up, IMHO player the best. plpay a guy that pwns you 50-0 because you will get used to it, even if you always loose against him 50-0 you will pwn other guys much easyer.

Like i told 4lien, the level of a player is the same as in a MMO-RPG. if you are lvl 7 and you play a lvl 20, you exp will increate much faster to his lvl, altho he wont get any exp. saying that, you will get to his lvl and then be his lvl so to say.

Playing a guy lvl7 will get your EXP up and his aswell, but wont be as fast as you want it to be.

And i stick with this. Look at Gamma, Rahz3l for example, i have way more play time then them. but they played alot agaisnt good players, they got my lvl in no time. but to surpass is wont happen. unless you practise some1 like Naut.

I Agree with Gamos, EXP > Skill. i seen Mburr play a while back, he still pwns.

and if there is any one that objects, come meet me in a Duel and prove me wrong.

Manta