Vista sucks performance wise for UT24k [Archive]

CrazyBob

30 Jan 2007, 16:59

There are some programs that showed deeply disappointing performance. Unreal Tournament 2004 and the professional graphics benchmarking suite SPECviewperf 9.03 suffered heavily from the lack of support for the OpenGL graphics library under Windows Vista. This is something we expected, and we clearly advise against replacing Windows XP with Windows Vista if you need to run professional graphics applications.Source: http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/01/29/xp-vs-vista/page4.html#3d_games

Shite, and I just ordered my copy yesterday.

Shrimp

30 Jan 2007, 17:03

So why are they running UT in OGL?

J1nX

30 Jan 2007, 17:07

Who really cares? I don't think we'll be playing UTk4 for much longer anyways?

UTk7 FTW :D

CrazyBob

30 Jan 2007, 17:16

So why are they running UT in OGL?
Yeah, good point ...hrmmm.
Who really cares? I don't think we'll be playing UTk4 for much longer anyways?

UTk7 FTW :D
Yeah, only the better part of A WHOLE YEAR to go!

J1nX

30 Jan 2007, 17:17

Ok true, good point....:P

But I am sure there will be updates and bug fixes that will sort these issues out?

GM<Jaymac>MF

30 Jan 2007, 19:14

I honestly don't see the need to rush out and upgrade to Vista right now. Give it six months to a year (maybe even longer) and then I'll probably go get a copy.

How much is it going for atm anyway?

J1nX

30 Jan 2007, 19:16

$400 or so depening on which version..

GM<Jaymac>MF

30 Jan 2007, 19:18

So we're looking at about R3500 for the ultimate version?

slayer676

30 Jan 2007, 21:23

So we're looking at about R3500 for the ultimate version?

wrong... at my work we selling them for 2k, and thats for ultimate so 2k and less for vista. now the price i saw on Prophecy was fro me a laughing sutation.

GM<Jaymac>MF

30 Jan 2007, 21:42

Wow, 2K is not that bad. To be honest, I was expecting it to be more like the price from Prophecy. Are you sure that its R2k for the retail and not the upgrade, becusae if so... that's actually quite affordable. What can you get Office 12 for, because that's a piece of software I really like.

Nonethlesss, I'm still not buying Vista any time within the next six months, that's for sure.

Karnaugh

30 Jan 2007, 22:10

Wow, toms hardware win again.

The accelerated drivers for vista are a fucking day old, what did they expect?

J1nX

31 Jan 2007, 08:06

Karnaugh, why do you always tend to type something which makes no common sense, and people always have to try and decipher what you mean?

CrazyBob

31 Jan 2007, 09:30

Prices here:
http://www.take2.co.za/news.php?id=10998

I got the Home Premium for R1109 (DSP). Thought it was rather cheap too :)

J1nX

31 Jan 2007, 09:40

Just curious... DSP is for sale when you buy computer parts....?

What is DSP?

And what type of parts you gotta buy?

Like if I buy a mouse will I be able to buy the DSP also?

Thanks....

Zyron

31 Jan 2007, 09:47

Makes perfect sense to a person who can think, and try see past the sarcasm.

Karnaugh, why do you always tend to type something which makes no common sense, and people always have to try and decipher what you mean?

Gamos

31 Jan 2007, 10:34

Karn,
I am willing to bet hardware manufacturers had access to Vista Alpha and Beta editions, long before the public Beta even went live, months back.

Day old accelerated drivers is a bloody poor excuse, especially from nVidia.

J1nx,
sites can sell DSP, as long as the product remains sealed. No extra hardware neccessary like OEM. It is essentially COEM for system sellers, and still tied to one machine like OEM. You are allowed 5 major part swops before the machine is seen as "new", and require another license.

=_sNaKe_=

31 Jan 2007, 10:52

I honestly don't see the need to rush out and upgrade to Vista right now. Give it six months to a year (maybe even longer) and then I'll probably go get a copy.

If it ain't broke...

XP's given me no problems for a long, long time now.

Until software stops running on XP or there are significant performance increases or features that I need, I see no need for Vista. I also don't want to have to upgrade my system for an OS, that's reserved for UT3 ;)

Thallium

31 Jan 2007, 11:34

Shrimp

31 Jan 2007, 12:01

german_weasel

31 Jan 2007, 12:07

Well, full DX10 is only coming with Vista...

WinXP will have DX9L to run DX10 Games on XP. it will sort of convert DX10 calls to the DX9 api in Xp.

soon you will have to choose, XP with DX10 Compatibility, or Vista with full DX10.

my 2c

I agree with you, it may be sooner than expected that games and apps that harness the full potential of DX10 and other Vista functionality are released.
I would love to be ready for it.

In the past, i had a crappy PC and never upgraded it, because of that, the price of my parts decreased until it wasn't even worth shit AND i missed out on MANY Great GAMES!!!. I couldn't even play Duke Nukem 3d:(
I learnt my lesson, i will sell and buy new parts on a regular basis :(

Thallium

31 Jan 2007, 13:08

Guess it's kind of like the PlayStation 3. No point getting a PS3 at the moment since there are no decent games worth playing on it. Same with DX10, no real point yet since there's nothing DX10-exclusive to play.

I agree with you there shrimpy, alas, i have moved to Vista already, the Business edition. since i got the 360, i have not touched a PC game at all, so i don't need to stick to Xp for gaming :rolleyes:

I just like having a new OS :D
And i get it for free from my company :D

CrazyBob

31 Jan 2007, 14:39

I just bought it because it's new and shiny. I like new and shiney things :) Oh, plus it's got media center, so all I need now is a Harmony remote and my home theatre is so sorted :D (Okay, and maybe a tv card).

GM<Jaymac>MF

31 Jan 2007, 15:07

I got Windows XP media Center set up on a PC dedicated for my entertainment system. It was pretty inexpensive to set up; I used a P4 2.4 with a Geforce 6200 and about 1.5GB RAM. XP Media Center costs R900 and it works great. So, I see no need to upgrade to Vista when I already have a Media Center that works more than just fine.

As for DX 10 games for my main machine, it's like Shrimp said; there's no point in upgrading unless (1) there are worthwhile DX10 games released and (2) you have a DX10 graphics card!

CrazyBob

31 Jan 2007, 15:22

Yeah, definately no need to upgrade that when you've already got media center, I don't however :P

I'm gonna be running it off my main PC at first (in the process of putting together a dedicated media center though, but takes a while as it just gets hand-me-downs :) ) I have a question that I asked before but didn't get anywhere...

I have a dual-core, so I can play UT and run full-blown divx movies/series off my PC (displayed on the TV) at the same time with no perceivable performance hit (you know, in case my flatmate just has to watch the latest Desperate Housewives while I wanna play games).

I just have a problem with sound of course, as I wanna hear game sound, but can't because it'll then mix with the movie's sound. So I have to play with the sound off ...which does suck alot. If any of you techies know of a solution... please, now's the time to speak :D

War]-[eaD

31 Jan 2007, 15:31

Hmmm... I think what shrimpo said makes the most sense hey... I'll start worrying about full DX10 when most games are DX10... and that's also when I'll upgrade my GPU(s) to DX10...

As to what Karnaugh said... I must agree with Zyrons response... it makes allot of sense if you look past the sarcasm... LOL!... Pretty funny aswell... ripping off Toms Hardware! hehe

CheerS!

AdV3nt

01 Feb 2007, 09:05

Just curious... DSP is for sale when you buy computer parts....?

What is DSP?

And what type of parts you gotta buy?

Like if I buy a mouse will I be able to buy the DSP also?

Thanks....

DSP is essentially the same as a normal license except with less packaging which means no manual no nice cd case etc.

AdV3nt

01 Feb 2007, 09:13

But are none of you guys even interested in Crysis which is due for release in march and is a full dx10 game?

Shrimp

01 Feb 2007, 09:40

Hasn't Crysis been delayed to "when it's done"?

Karnaugh

01 Feb 2007, 09:50

Karn,
I am willing to bet hardware manufacturers had access to Vista Alpha and Beta editions, long before the public Beta even went live, months back.

Day old accelerated drivers is a bloody poor excuse, especially from nVidia.

ATI is actually the only one to have drivers for Vista so far.

Just because hardware manufacturers had access to Vista Alpha doesn't mean they could do an reasonable testing and development for it yet. More importantly it also doesn't mean they have been able to optimise their drivers correctly yet.

Most hardware is still unsupported on Vista or the drivers are dodgy, this is common.

Try to understand that Vista is a very large internal change to XP. It's not just a new theme and some service packs.

AdV3nt

01 Feb 2007, 10:15

AdV3nt

01 Feb 2007, 10:19

Sorry never saw that you said "most" hardware :(

GM<Jaymac>MF

01 Feb 2007, 10:41

@ CBob: I can't think of any solutions there, and I think you will more than likely notice a small performance hit if you're watching a movie and playing a game. But it won't completely destroy the game if that's what you're asking. (Well, not UT2K4 in any case.) As for sound, unless you have dual sound out (of some sort) I can't think of any good solution.

What I can suggest though, is that you get yourself a cheap second hand PC to install MCE on. I dont know what the minimum specs are for Visata MCE, but, like I said, XPMCE runs great on my P4 2.4, Geforce 6200, 1.5GB RAM. If you're looking at setting one up I have lots of advice to share. I hope to be building an awesome MCE mod in the next month or so which I'll post up here for everyone to benefit from.

Anyways, it will completely change the way you watch TV, serious! I love my Media Center and although it felt like I was biting the bullet at the time, being able to pause TV, rewind, record watch movies, series, radio, music, pictures... man, nothing beats it! And I'm not even much of a TV watcher!

Thallium

01 Feb 2007, 12:30

I went and had a look at all the great and mighty toms hardware benchmarks for vista.

everything in Vista is faster except the benchmarks that has to do with Hardware Acceleration, 3dmax, maya etc. 3dmax etc still needs some work to be done for Vista.

Better Graphics card drivers will come out soon, there will probably be updates for DX10, as DX 10 works differently than DX9 because Vista is different than Xp in the insides. all those mighty benchmarks at toms hardware are DX9, which has to run in some sort of compatibility in Vista. Because DX in vista has new guts now.

dx9 to dx8 is not like dx10 to dx9, its new, not updated.

so, stick to Xp for now for DX9, when you want some performance for DX10, then move to Vista, especially for UT2K7, which i think personally will run better in Vista, as it is DX10.

my 5c

Karnaugh

01 Feb 2007, 12:31

Sorry to say this Karn but you are wrong there, fristly Nvidia has drivers out for its gfx cards and has also released their latest beta drivers for the 8800 v100.59 and from what i've heard they work quite well and better than the xp drivers, asus has released drivers for their products now that vista been released same goes for creative and logitech and as far as i can tell they work fine and secondly with ATI (not sure if they have fixed it yet) drivers work well except for the fact that they have no openGL support

Sorry to say this PlanetEarth but AdV3nt pulled that entire paragraph directly from his ass.

ATI are the only manufacturer graphics drivers with Windows certification. The nVidia ones don't even work (if you've actually tried them yourself instead of going "lolz but my uncle frank said it works fine").

So far you mentioned 3 manufacturers. Exactly how many hardware manufacturers are left? About a million?
So 0.0003% of hardware manufacturers have a Vista driver. Holy shit batman, thats just proof in itself that you should buy vista RIGHT NOW and assume all your hardware will work 100%.

Karnaugh

01 Feb 2007, 12:32

Better Graphics card drivers will come out soon, there will probably be updates for DX10, as DX 10 works differently than DX9 because Vista is different than Xp in the insides. all those mighty benchmarks at toms hardware are DX9, which has to run in some sort of compatibility in Vista. Because DX in vista has new guts now.

Exactly my point. Apparently we're wrong.

Thallium

01 Feb 2007, 13:03

http://www.unreal.co.za/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1810&stc=1&d=1170327551

Nvidia is catching up a bit, but these are only since 05 of Jan

I'm using them and they work, but seen one or two software artifacts with them.

AdV3nt

01 Feb 2007, 13:05

hehe Karnaugh :)

The 8800 drivers do work and i know because i have an 8800gtx and vista and both work so dont insult me for no reason like that!

With rest i guess you are right but not about the 0.0003% i dont think you understand what 0.0003% really is.

Karnaugh you are a very stressed angry individual, you jump at the slightest remark which may not side with you opinions or beleifs or knowledge, tou dont need to be a prick ever single time you correct someone or should i say HALF correct someone.

AdV3nt

01 Feb 2007, 13:13

I checked now and ATI have fixed their drivers now

AdV3nt

01 Feb 2007, 13:18

Thallium i cant see that pic?

I haven't had any issues yet but then again i have only had it on for a week and i haven't really played any games this week (capped adsl)

The 100.59 Vista drivers (which are beta) have just been released today or yesterday i think

As far as i know 2 driver versions were leaked for the 8800 v100.30 and v100.55

Thallium

01 Feb 2007, 13:58

it just shows the forceware version 95 with WHQL Certification

its for all the other cards, not the 8000 series.

am i wrong in saying that the 8000 series is DX10? that is probably why there drivers are seperate from the others as well.

this is probably all going to boil down too, if you have a DX10 card, get Vista, if you have a DX9 card, stick to Xp.

Xp is probably going to always run DX9 better than Vista, and DX10 will probably land up absolutely creaming Xp later when its all good and stable.

just another 2c

AdV3nt

01 Feb 2007, 14:10

hehe all true thallium :D i cant disagree :)

although windows XP will have dx version called dx9L so that it can run dx10 games or make it dx10 compatible but not completely

Karnaugh

01 Feb 2007, 20:48

http://www.aggravatedgamers.com/2007/01/31/nvidia-peeing-on-the-vista-community/

Thallium

01 Feb 2007, 22:12

http://www.aggravatedgamers.com/2007/01/31/nvidia-peeing-on-the-vista-community/

Vista has Nvidia drivers already built in, and are WHQL

Vista has problems with raid systems on the nforce 3,2,1, probably because of OS changes in Vista. but those boards are old, it's time to change PC technology a bit and improve it and not retard improvement for old hardware.

but thats it, All chipset drivers, Netcard Drivers, Hypertransport drivers, Nvidia PCI Drivers etc etc.. all of it is in Vista already. and they work. and are newer than the latest release for Xp.

my 64Bit U320 Lsi SCSI controller did not need anything "third party" for Vista. the latest drivers from Lsi are older than the ones in Vista. I'm not crying about Lsi not releasing Vista Drivers.

those stupid fucking retards from that website should actually just shut the fuck up, they probably haven't even tried Vista yet, but instead they jump the gun and cry all over the internet because drivers are not released yet. in the meantime Nvidia got ahead and got there drivers implemented with the final release of Vista with WHQL

Karnaugh

01 Feb 2007, 23:29

Vista has Nvidia drivers already built in, and are WHQL

Those most likely are not accelerated.

Thallium

01 Feb 2007, 23:47

yep.. Fully accelerated. installed the latest forceware today over the built in Vista Drivers.

I only got a small performance improvement and the control panel..

Put it this way, Vista works out the box on an nforce 4 and higher board with a Geforce 6 or higher card with Aero and Hardware acceleration working straight away

War]-[eaD

05 Feb 2007, 09:57

Yar... very interesting read this...

Thallium... some nice info and opinions you posted there. Like I said earlier as well, think I'll stick to XP till DX10 is nice and mature or till I can't keep up with DX10 games anymore.

Do you guys have any info on the next line of ATI cards? I.e. are there soon to be released DX10 cards in the bag? Coz I saw that Sapphire has released a X1950 Pro Dual recently... lemme look for the link.

Will post later... gotta go to a meeting first! :(

War]-[eaD

05 Feb 2007, 11:42

Link:

Sapphire X1950 Pro Dual 1GB (http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=7567)

This was the latest offering from ATI... but imho... they wasted time and money on this crap... coz it's DX9... and there is apparently no form of DX10 compatibility, so why waste ALLOT of money on this when DX10 is just around the corner...

Oh well... just my 2c... :P

AdV3nt

05 Feb 2007, 15:43

Dont know much about the R600 WH except that it has been delayed again for some reason, but i'm sure it'll be awesome if it ever comes out i mean some of the specs seem quite promising :)

wait i just read this months NAG and they say that the R600 has been delayed till March due to ATI not being able to produce a reasonable yield. But the state that a site released Benchmarks between the R600 and 8800GTX where the R600 lead in most cases by a NARROW margin.

Thallium

05 Feb 2007, 21:38

-[eaD;64850']Link:

Sapphire X1950 Pro Dual 1GB (http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=7567)

This was the latest offering from ATI... but imho... they wasted time and money on this crap... coz it's DX9... and there is apparently no form of DX10 compatibility, so why waste ALLOT of money on this when DX10 is just around the corner...

Oh well... just my 2c... :P

you are right, i feel sorry for anybody that buys that thing, what a damn waste of money.

2 months down the line, a Directx10 series gets released by ATI, what then? try sell this piece of shit, no one will want to buy it :teehee:

Macera

06 Feb 2007, 13:58

Macera

06 Feb 2007, 14:04

RoosTa

06 Feb 2007, 14:27

Well, full DX10 is only coming with Vista...

WinXP will have DX9L to run DX10 Games on XP. it will sort of convert DX10 calls to the DX9 api in Xp.

soon you will have to choose, XP with DX10 Compatibility, or Vista with full DX10.

my 2c

Nope. WinXP will not get 'DX10' in any form. DX9L(onghorn) is an 'emulator' to allow DX9 games to work on Vista. It seems XP will be stuck with DX9c.

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=35140

(Apologies if this has been said, didn't read whole thread)

Thallium

06 Feb 2007, 14:30

mmm.. i checked around a bit more as well, this story has gone dodge now.

looks like there aint gonna be a DX10 emu for Xp, but i have spotted a few things around ms about DX10 emu for Xp.. guess we will have to see now.

oh well, looks like im wrong there. :(

EDIT: i got the DX9L info somewhere else, not off the inquirer, cause they are stupid, but it looks like a huge rumour all over the place now.

It is a faster version of DirectX 9.0 that will run under Vista only.

ROFL!!! glad they think so, it's slower.

AdV3nt

06 Feb 2007, 14:45

"Netcard Drivers" WRONG! My nforce chipset mobo's netcard wont work with vista, and vista sucks anyway, 450MB RAM on idling, that's a bit harsh for most systems even today, I would recommend 2gb ram minimum for proper funcion in vista

I ran Vista here on my pc at work with 512 mb ram and it ran perfectly fine with no hiccups i even played WC3 although given thats not very resource hungry it still ran smoothly :)