Umsportsmanlike Behaviour - your views

[[N]Haja]

Heya,

I would just like to get the communitys opinion on the above topic. Recently, I have noticed alot of TDM going on which is excellent, as it is one of my favourite gametypes. However, I have also noticed alot of unbalanced teams. Although it is luck of the draw, on whos team you land up on, I really think the players who are on the winning team, and are THRASHING the other team should use their brains and swop over to the other, losing team.

O am not bitching like a 2 year old cos i got owned or anything, but i really think it is pathetic when the winning team triples the score of the other team. We are trying to build a community here, and if we keep on thrashing lesser players, then they will eventually move on.

Anyhoo, here is a screenshot below of an example of a game. If would be cool to hear some opinions on this matter, expeciialy from the players that get whooped all the time :P

Ok, let the insults begin....NOW!

[Gamos]

Yeah, also irritates the living piss out of me, but mostly the teams are equal and swopping isn't possible. I also feel a bit arrogant asking a player to swop with me.
The onus are on the top scorers IMO.

[BMU]

Haja']expeciialy from the players that get whooped all the time :P

You called?

Personally I don't care at all about the team score. I couldn't tell you whether my team won or lost after a match. I only care about how I did. So personally, I don't swop even if someone asks me. Most matches are 4 minutes long, I have no desire to waste any of that time going through the whole swopping routine. Just my personal 2c, of course.

[Zyron]

ja I thought so.
Haje, You seem to be missing out on 1 server :P :P

[hai2u]

You called?

Personally I don't care at all about the team score. I couldn't tell you whether my team won or lost after a match. I only care about how I did. So personally, I don't swop even if someone asks me. Most matches are 4 minutes long, I have no desire to waste any of that time going through the whole swopping routine. Just my personal 2c, of course.

How typicaly ignorant. Your score is dependant on the strength of your team to a large degree.

[cyghost]

its difficult to balance teams while a game is ongoing and people join and leave

instead the "pickup" system that European TDM and TAM servers use might be a good idea

in IRC or where ever (even ingame) - appoint two "captains" and let them chose sides (like playing a friendly touch rugby game) if the captains know the respective skills of all involved it, should balance out - then when the game starts everyone knows which team to play on and can switch sides

to ask someone ingame to change sides might be a bit harsh - better to have it set up before hand and not too difficult to do imho

[Plato]

Hmmm...

I don`t think that that would work. Sorry man but I cannot envision 5 guys waiting for a 6th player and then deciding teams and the like so that the game is balanced.

Swopping mid-way through a game is easy. You press esc, click on the big button that reads 'Change Teams'. Far easier than to have to wait and set up teams. (you don`t even lose your score ;))

I agree with Haj, if you are pwnzoring the other guys (i.e on Nauts team :P) swop over.
I can`t count the number of times I`ve seen a noob play on the clearly stronger team, get a wicked score and say, 'Wow I am good'.

Karnaugh is right, your score is dependant on how strong your team is. Even if you don`t rate yourself that highly the least you can do is to change teams so that the really strong team is outnumbered.

(The only problem being that if there is a whole team of inexperienced players they become cannon fodder and everyone on the strong team gets at least a kiling spree.)

[mudd@]

I prefer being on the weaker team - thats the best way to develop your skills.

Balanced teams just keep you at the same level.

[Struma]

I play the game, and if the other team is weaker and has an open spot, i change, if not, i stay.

[Terror]

As was said, you're autmoatically randomly placed on a team. So I think thats the way it should stay. The games made like that for a reason. If you getting prawned, maby try to think about why you getting raped and fix it.

I only think that team swopping should be done when the other team is short a player, then thats a valid reason to swop.

I also wholeheartly disagree with the statement that your score is based on the team you on. Your score is directly proportional to your current level of skill on that given game.

I for one know that is it not directly due to the fact of what team you on, becuase if you're a n00b on a good team then I doubt you will be getting a good score since all the better players would be getting all the kills and NOT the n00b.

Also I feel the only way to learn is to be thrown in the deep end, if you're team is not as good as the other team then so be it. No point crying and asking people to change teams, rather use that time to stop, think about why youre teams losing, IE : timing of the shields, powerups, jumping into spam filled areas etc and thats how you will eventually take the team you're playing on to standing a chance of winning.

That said to justify all of this I know for a fact that most time when Nauts on your team, that team will win 90% of the time. So yes having better players on your team will make your team win, it will not however give you a personal high score, that up to you.

For Eg : Put Naut on a team with n00bs versus a team of above average players and I will bet you that Nauts score will be equal or so if not higher than anyone on the above average team, this proves my point and I've seen it happen plenty of times.

[Cataphract]

Karnaugh is right, your score is dependant on how strong your team is. Even if you don`t rate yourself that highly the least you can do is to change teams so that the really strong team is outnumbered.

That aggravates the imbalance. The strong team then gets another easy target to shoot at. Its better for a weak player to JOIN the strong team, and give the weaker team an opportunity for some frags.

[Zyron]

That aggravates the imbalance. The strong team then gets another easy target to shoot at. Its better for a weak player to JOIN the strong team, and give the weaker team an opportunity for some frags.
Like some easy .56K Frags :D :D

[Gamos]

Terror, I disagree with just about everything you have said.

Firstly, If you are getting raped, no thinking on earth will save your skin if you have 3 top players gunning you down! That is not just ignorant, but arrogant as well. You are out of your league, overpowered and against unbeatable odds.

Secondly, yes, UT does sort you into teams, but the algorythm to keep the team balances are wholly broken. It is nothing strange to see 3 good players all in the same side. Granted, players will swop around, but it should really be up to UT to take the previous round's frags and sort teams, but that hardly ever happens.

Lastly, I also have first hand experience how a stronger team will give newer players a much easier time to get frags. Call it crossfire or stealing frags or whatever, but skill alone is not the only factor helping you along. If you have an unbalanced team, the entire team is unbalanced. How often do you find weaker players doing well when Naut is on that side?

[Terror]

How often do you find weaker players doing well when Naut is on that side?

Ok good you're entilted to your opinion and thats great. I have nothing to say further on it. It's a pointless subject anyways (well done Haja)

The thing is with your quoted statement I for one know that i have seen many newbies on the same team as naut and they DONT get high scores because of him.

Please explain why someone would all of a sudden get a high score by having Naut or simliar skilled player on thier team, I would love to know how this thought was conjured.

[Cataphract]

Terror, I disagree with just about everything you have said.

Me too. I just didn't have the energy...

[Gamos]

Let's agree to disagree and leave it at that. Difference of opinion, that is all.

[cyghost]

might be a communication misunderstanding? you guys mean Team scores and terror refers to Individual scores??

if you read terror's first post without bias, he is spot on actually

the problem is not the scores though, its with unbalanced teams and with online play without setting it up first, I don't see how it can be done

I used to play Assault (yes I love this gametype and find it to be extremely competitive and tactical) a lot on a few American servers ... and people would complain about unbalanced teams all the time - but with players connecting and dis-connecting and switching sides all the time (in the beginning I used to switch if I see things were unbalanced but it always ended up lopsided again, so I stopped doing it and just played) it simply not possible to have a balanced match - that being said I don't know what its like on South African servers and being on a 56 k line at the mo I am not going to find out any time soon *sigh*

so, while it sucks to be on the receing end of an unbalanced game, its not the end of the world either and without pointing it out, one knows in one's heart that the result would have been different if one did not have so many newbies on one's team :P I guess the answer is just to do your best and try to get as high an individual score as possible

(being on the winning side of an unbalanced game is not as rewarding as a hard fought and won battle either - but what can you do?)

[Terror]

might be a communication misunderstanding? you guys mean Team scores and terror refers to Individual scores??


Yes I think you hit the nail on head. We are speaking of two different things. LOL


if you read terror's first post without bias, he is spot on actually



:D

[Terror]

Let's agree to disagree and leave it at that. Difference of opinion, that is all.

LOL - what cyghost said ;)

[Plato]

You said you guys mean Team scores and terror refers to Individual scores??

They said
Your score is dependant on the strength of your team to a large degree. If you have an unbalanced team, the entire team is unbalanced.
:D

[[N]Haja]

We are speaking of two different things. LOL

thyen learn to speak about the topic being discussed, and not go on on some arbitary tangent.

[Cripple-X]

I find it much easier when a good player is on my team.

1)They will be keeping control of the shields and DD, a player is easier to frag when he has no armour.:rolleyes:
2)When they kill an opposing player, this player is easier to kill until he can find weapons with which he is comfortable with.:rolleyes:
3)If said player killing them and not me I tend to do better.:rolleyes:

Don't try to team up with them and follow them around, they just have a knack for getting all the deciding shots in and stealing all the frags.

[Gamos]

Perfect Cripple, you said it 100%. In turn, a weaker player will do better in a stronger team.

[Wh1tE_Tr4sH]

Let's agree to disagree and leave it at that. Difference of opinion, that is all.
No G, it's just a difference in intelligence!

& i have to agree with Cripple.

[MaXimus]

This is a problem in many other team based games and unless games start using some persistant data between different matches, it will keep being a problem of which there are no really good solutions. Games will have to start switching players based on their performance on previous matches, or based on the career of the player. This system should obviously be optional in the game since there are cases when you want to do a quick clan match if there are enough players of two different clans to do this.

I must admit that its nice playing on the side of the people you know and your fellow clan mates, however, I would far rather prefer a well balanced match instead. The bottom line is that the server should handle these things and handle it correctly.

[DJRob]

Guys,

Reading through here - i found there are some advantages and disadvantages to all views.

when just being placed randomly - you get put into an environment of different players each time. This teaches you to learn to adapt - which i think is very important for UT. I mean - learning as you play - and adapting to win is very important wouldn't you think? Also - random placing allows you to see where you stand with other players. for example - a weaker player on Nauts team - may or may not get more score - but he'll definitely not have more score than naut. Lately I have been playing better - and I compare where I sit by looking at my score and the score of other players on my team. It kinda helps me decide who I would like to duel - to up my level of play.

As for Team swapping - I would both approve and dissaprove. swappng to balance - I would say makes people who don't do well feel good because the overall team score is closer to the other team - however - this doesn't improve their team playing skills as much as it would when they are on a team that doesnt do well - as it would force them to learn to play better.

However - changing teams has the same effect - you could learn well from playing with a good player - having that said - you still learn more in situations that are bad - rather than in situations that are good.

I think it should really boil down to - how do all the players feel that are playing online at the time, if everyone starts texting - "teams" then - one of the good guys can swap. if there are no complaints - play the game as is.

[MaXimus]

I agree with you somewhat DJ, however there are things which I should make clear...

The system I described above should still incorporate randomness, but the main point should be to balance out teams.

When I was learning to play UT online, I didn't learn much from being raped silly when the teams was way out of balance. The reason is that after a few rounds of this you get so bewildered that you don't know where to hide anymore. I learned much more playing with the good players. I wasn't under pressure and I could have a look to see what they were up to, and how they did so well, this was the time I focused on them and the teamplay rather than just trying to get a frag in. Perhaps thats just me, but I can't see how one can learn that much by being raped till your blue in the face.

[[N]Haja]

ye, that is my point. I do not mind losing, hell, I have been doing it for 5 years.

What I dislike immensly is when a stronger team is RAPING the other team, and just carry on using shit tactics to keep on raping them. Camping spawnpoints, DD, armour etc. Yes, it is UT and control is half the game blah blah, but when you have a 100 lead on the team, surely you should let up a bit, and try new weapons or something. Switch to the goddam bio rifle and tweak your skills with it, dont go on hoarding the mini and DD.

I will always swop teams if mine is winning by a huge amount, to even the TEAM out, even if it makes the players uneven.

Anyhoo, we got a good discussion going here, it is nice to see :)

[Acid Burn]

MAx and Haja I agree with you guys on this point and in many times before I have changed teams to try and get some balance in them it is a pitty that not all player are like this. I mean if you are assigned to a team have a look at the roster if you see weak players on one side and strong on the other in that time you can do swapping I mean we all know everyone by now and who is good and who is weak. Use the knowladge and create balanced teams.

Acid :)
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Buell rss1200 (http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Buell_RSS1200)

[DJRob]

Maximus - you have a good point about Raping - what could be done on SGS server for the meantime - is to perhaps increase the "invulnerability time" maybe from 2s to 5s? this could promote less raping?

[Pox]

I blame Nautilian. He unbalances any team he's on. :)

If you want a balanced game then set up a clan match or something. Otherwise just chill (yes I know it's hard to do sometimes) and have fun. If you're team is doing terribly then forget about them and see how well you can do on your own.

...but I still blame Naut.
R5 says he's on that score list ;)

[<A>BioGizzard]

i think we should have 20 vs naut
maybe that would help even it

[Crazychic]

i think we should have 20 vs naut
maybe that would help even it

totally

[BMU]

I guess I agree with Pox. Just chill, better luck next round, see how well you can do despite the unfair team balance, etc.